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My 2 cents on systemd

systemd opinion

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#41
pr1vacy

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If anyone is interested in learning systemd (not SystemD...they get whiny over improper case use) then look here:

 

https://utcc.utoront...emdCrashAndMore

http://news.diewelti...ng-consent.html

 

Init Systems

 

Truth


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#42
j-g-

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You never established that anyone was lying about anything. It's rude to claim that someone is lying just because you don't understand or agree with their point of view.

I've noticed that systemd is very bad about not being able to restart a service on my Sabayon laptop. It will say its stopped when its not, or will say its already starting when I say to start it, if X fails cause I attempt to try binary AMD drivers, it restarts GDM over and over so I can't log in to fix it, it seems impossible to get it to single user mode to fsck root. And it gets odd problems that I can never seem to resolve except with a reboot. The logs are always locked into a binary journal ....

Someone turned my Linux box into Windows! The people that like Systemd grew up on Windows and think rebooting the machine is acceptable. Rebooting doesn't fix problems, it hides them. You only reboot to replace the kernel and that's seldom necessary

 
These are the lies or exaggerations whatever you like, I've had that problem with GDM failing, and had no problems finding out how to fix it(emergecy target), and lost no logs at at all, I run fedora on a 32bit mini-hp and gdm doesn't work, so I had to use lightdm, had no trouble changing that using systemd tools.
Here another:
 

Well the systemd guys are making progress I guess.
 
They've sped up the boot time to make all the reboots you'll be doing faster! Sweet!
 
....
 
This is madness. Systemd needs to be stopped or Linux will have the reputation of Windows ME.

 
 

You don't seem to understand what Kernighan is saying. It's true that memory constraints played a roll in the creation of early UNIX tools but as Kernighan says in the interview, "Necessity is the mother of invention."  That invention - the UNIX philosophy of small tools interacting with one another - continued on its own merit for decades after memory constraints ceased to be a consideration. 

As Kernighan and Pike wrote in 1984, "[The UNIX] style was based on the use of tools: using programs separately or in combination to get a job done, rather than doing it by hand, by monolithic self-sufficient subsystems, or by special-purpose, one-time programs."


But systemd isn't a monolithic binary doing everything, And uses several programs in combination to get the job done, and I'd think they were referring to the difference between having a separation of hardware, operating system and tools, to what I've read was the norm back then hardware + specific os or program bundled togheter, the fact that systemd uses IPC and not only stdin and stdout and pipes, is just a difference in the way those programs work together in my opinion, and some of its most popular and useful programs came out out of necessity as well (nspwan).
If you actually look at the code main.c(the systemd program PID1, the file that contains it ) Is ~2k lines[1]( I know sysvinit's init.c  in the end is smaller and doesn't have as many includes, but the logic of how the init works is still less than 2k lines of code not a big monolithic thing)
Look at other init programs lenght counting the files that get compiled and contain the logic for the init:
FreeBSD(init.c 1.7K LOC) [2] 
OpenBSD(init.c 1.5k LOC) [3]
sysvinit  ( init.c[2.9k] + utmp.c[~250] + init.h [~100] + init_req.h[~100] + paths.h [~100] + set.h [~20]) 3.5k LOC [4]
 

Really?

I'd have expected someone of the age you seem in your picture to be more mature, and actually comment something useful, a shame you lose your time making fun of people rather than spreading the wisdom you might indeed have.

 

I wasn't the one ranting about not being able to get logs and just pointing out that you can get even more logs than most want anyway, and I will repeat what has said over and over you CAN get your logs binary or plain Text, you can install another logger the one you have been using maybe?, and the fractions of second of extra latency this adds to logging doesn't really affect any service, and if you want to be real fast for any reason for some service, why logging to something as slow as a hard drive?

 

Anyway, lets not waste anymore time on this, the code is what will speak in the end, these flames will just be space wasted in some server.


[1] https://github.com/s...src/core/main.c
[1] https://github.com/s...kefile.am#L1328

[2] https://svnweb.freeb...t.c?view=markup
[3] http://cvsweb.openbs...c?annotate=1.54

[4] http://svn.savannah....e&root=sysvinit
http://svn.savannah....nit&view=markup
http://svn.savannah....nit&view=markup
http://svn.savannah....nit&view=markup
http://svn.savannah....nit&view=markup
http://svn.savannah....nit&view=markup



#43
uudruid74

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These are the lies or exaggerations whatever you like, I've had that problem with GDM failing, and had no problems finding out how to fix it(emergecy target), and lost no logs at at all, I run fedora on a 32bit mini-hp and gdm doesn't work, so I had to use lightdm, had no trouble changing that using systemd tools.
Here another:




But systemd isn't a monolithic binary doing everything, And uses several programs in combination to get the job done, and I'd think they were referring to the difference between having a separation of hardware, operating system and tools, to what I've read was the norm back then hardware + specific os or program bundled togheter, the fact that systemd uses IPC and not only stdin and stdout and pipes, is just a difference in the way those programs work together in my opinion, and some of its most popular and useful programs came out out of necessity as well (nspwan).
If you actually look at the code core.c(the systemd program PID1 ) Is ~2k lines[1]( I know sysvinit's init.c in the end is smaller and doesn't have as many includes, but the logic of how the init works is still less than 2k lines of code not a big monolithic thing)
Look at other init programs lenght counting the files that get compiled and contain the logic for the init:
FreeBSD(init.c 1.7K LOC) [2]
OpenBSD(init.c 1.5k LOC) [3]
sysvinit ( init.c[2.9k] + utmp.c[~250] + init.h [~100] + init_req.h[~100] + paths.h [~100] + set.h [~20]) 3.5k LOC [4]

I'd have expected someone of the age you seem in your picture to be more mature, and actually comment something useful, a shame you lose your time making fun of people rather than spreading the wisdom you might indeed have.

I wasn't the one ranting about not being able to get logs and just pointing out that you can get even more logs than most want anyway, and I will repeat what has said over and over you CAN get your logs binary or plain Text, you can install another logger the one you have been using maybe?, and the fractions of second of extra latency this adds to logging doesn't really affect any service, and if you want to be real fast for any reason for some service, why logging to something as slow as a hard drive?

Anyway, lets not waste anymore time on this, the code is what will speak in the end, these flames will just be space wasted in some server.


Please stop. There are no lies nor exaggerations, just relations of personal experience ... from highly experienced people no less. For example, I'm not a moron and I can make GDM stop respawning! SO, instead of insinuating that I'm too dumb to make it stop, I obviously had some other point I was making.

My point is that only systemd seems to think that this is a good idea! Even systems that (erroneously IMHO) respawn a service that dies, will refuse to do so without limits on the rate. This is absolutely dangerous and can bring a system to its knees. What if it died due to low memory? Running it again could cause something ELSE to die. If I wanted automatic service respawn, I'd have Nagios do it and it would be done right, and it would never respawn twice in 10 minutes, and would send me a text every time it did, with additional limits per hour/day/etc.

The auto restart of services shows the mindset of the systemd developers. Us old Unix admins want to find the problem, fix it, then start the service ourself. Systemd tries to be "easy" and basically 'reboots' the service. Its Windows oriented thinking!

Your constant use of personal attacks shows us you are frustrated because you have nothing relevant to contribute. Please stop calling everyone liars. Its not helping your argument.

As for logs, I don't understand why you pretend its not an issue when you can just read the bug report that the logs get corrupt. And how compatible is all this with syslog? I want all my logs on one machine and when something goes dead, I read it on the log server. Does journalctl filter by machine? Or can systemd even handle syslog content from another machine without sending it through syslog?

But I can install another system log to get the features I want ... wait ... Why would I switch to systemd which tries to take over a service, just to proxy it right back to the service that was supposed to handle it in the first place? You are building a house of cards with your server. You say systemd is modular, but your definition is different than mine. In my book, modular means that when my SATA drive dies, I can replace it with another from ANY vendor. Systemd is locking out the alternatives and so we can't easily replace those modules. Thus, its NOT modular, but maybe sectional. It does not play nice with others and so it will be punished with exile.

Again, there is no benefit to using systemd, just stuff getting in my way. You talk of negligible latencies ... but what do I get in return for the latency? TROUBLE! Just dump systemd and use a real syslog.

When I hear systemd, I think of that Taylor Swift song ... "I knew you were trouble when you walked in ..."



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#44
uudruid74

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And FYI, comparing the init logic and saying its only 2K lines and sooo small ... its still 1.6MB compared to 37K for funtoo's init. So who's shoveling the BS? That's how many times larger? A few orders of magnitude

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#45
j-g-

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Please stop. There are no lies nor exaggerations, just relations of personal experience ... from highly experienced people no less. For example, I'm not a moron and I can make GDM stop respawning! SO, instead of insinuating that I'm too dumb to make it stop, I obviously had some other point I was making.
...
Your constant use of personal attacks shows us you are frustrated because you have nothing relevant to contribute. Please stop calling everyone liars. Its not helping your argument.

 

But I contributed a repo for anyone that wants to try systemd and keep using funtoo, code not just rants, so does your argument stand?(I know it's outdated, but I didn't compromised to keep it working, and actually left a script for automatic sync with the changes to the funto overlay for the curious enough, I also plan to get some time to make the changes to epro to read profiles from overlays, this could not only be useful for systemd, but for other type of profiles), and I wasn't making personal attacks nor implying you were stupid(maybe stubborn), at least it was not my intention I was calling a lie a lie, no matter the person who said it, specifically the arguments "Bootctl is a replacement for grub" its a bootlader no more we have several around not only grub, and  "You have to reboot as much as windows" or  "Faster boots for more reboots" I'd like to actually put this to test (the longest uptime I can get)with the version of RHEL7, but power outages are quite frequent where I'm right now.

 



#46
uudruid74

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But I contributed a repo for anyone that wants to try systemd and keep using funtoo, code not just rants, so does your argument stand?(I know it's outdated, but I didn't compromised to keep it working, and actually left a script for automatic sync with the changes to the funto overlay for the curious enough, I also plan to get some time to make the changes to epro to read profiles from overlays, this could not only be useful for systemd, but for other type of profiles), and I wasn't making personal attacks nor implying you were stupid(maybe stubborn), at least it was not my intention I was calling a lie a lie, no matter the person who said it, specifically the arguments "Bootctl is a replacement for grub" its a bootlader no more we have several around not only grub, and "You have to reboot as much as windows" or "Faster boots for more reboots" I'd like to actually put this to test (the longest uptime I can get)with the version of RHEL7, but power outages are quite frequent where I'm right now.

Perhaps you don't see the horrible irony of priding yourself on giving us the ability to run systemd in funtoo after we've told you how much we hate it, despise it, and think its a spreading virus ... and you want an award for spreading it to funtoo?

Think about that. Don't expect a thank you!

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#47
pr1vacy

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And FYI, comparing the init logic and saying its only 2K lines and sooo small ... its still 1.6MB compared to 37K for funtoo's init. So who's shoveling the BS? That's how many times larger? A few orders of magnitude

More about me at https://eddon.systems

It's roughly 50x the size cause it's that much better. :D

 

I guess the obvious point to make is........

 

Dude....this is Funtoo. Go find another forum to troll your jibberish to. Seriously.....Funtoo man. FUNTOO!

 

One of the primary reasons people come to Funtoo is.....NO SYSTEMD!!!!!!!!

 

Please go peddle this somewhere else. I'm confident the MAJORITY of Funtoo users do not want, need or care for systemd and MOSTLY not for what it does or doesn't do but because of how it goes against EVERYTHING Linux is fundamentally meant to be.....SIMPLE...and do ONE THING....and do it WELL.

 

You of course can say whatever you want like I can. Freedom of speech. It's just this is really the wrong forum/website/place to be promoting shitdomD.


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#48
j-g-

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And FYI, comparing the init logic and saying its only 2K lines and sooo small ... its still 1.6MB compared to 37K for funtoo's init. So who's shoveling the BS? That's how many times larger? A few orders of magnitude

More about me at https://eddon.systems

 

 

If you actually look at the code main.c(the systemd program PID1, the file that contains it ) Is ~2k lines[1]( I know sysvinit's init.c  in the end is smaller and doesn't have as many includes, but the logic of how the init works is still less than 2k lines of code not a big monolithic thing)

 

My point is that many times the argument made abut systemd doing a lot of stuff , makes it seem as if they just went an shoved every function they could have came up with into PID1, I know it is also an exaggeration but  consider somene new to linux who is just trying to informe themseleves about this systemd and init stuff and looking threads and has not much Idea about programming, read these stuff and start to have misconceptions that will only make it harder to really inform themeselves. I have actually looked into what makes the systemd binary singicantly bigger but let's not waste our time any more, I'm sure the both of us have better code to spend it on.

Peace.



#49
j-g-

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Perhaps you don't see the horrible irony of priding yourself on giving us the ability to run systemd in funtoo after we've told you how much we hate it, despise it, and think its a spreading virus ... and you want an award for spreading it to funtoo?

Think about that. Don't expect a thank you!

More about me at https://eddon.systems

 

Speak for yourself, It has got several clones.

Even a bug report I have to look into.



#50
j-g-

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It's roughly 50x the size cause it's that much better. :D

 

I guess the obvious point to make is........

 

Dude....this is Funtoo. Go find another forum to troll your jibberish to. Seriously.....Funtoo man. FUNTOO!

 

One of the primary reasons people come to Funtoo is.....NO SYSTEMD!!!!!!!!

 

Please go peddle this somewhere else. I'm confident the MAJORITY of Funtoo users do not want, need or care for systemd and MOSTLY not for what it does or doesn't do but because of how it goes against EVERYTHING Linux is fundamentally meant to be.....SIMPLE...and do ONE THING....and do it WELL.

 

You of course can say whatever you want like I can. Freedom of speech. It's just this is really the wrong forum/website/place to be promoting shitdomD.

 

It's open source, and I can do as I like, and have done, actually look at the repo and then judge, I made the effort to make it not invade funtoo suggesting not asking about systemd here and making bug reports about systemd to me, knowing it was just losing poeples time in flames like these.

PD: this thread was going dead but you reactivated it actually. If you didn't want to see systemd anymore why bothering reactivating a thread months old?



#51
j-g-

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I would also like to point out that is  a shame that the most PR funtoo seems get  is because its 'anti-systemd' stance, and even drobbins makes stupid threads just to mock systemd, I think funtoo has more than that and some really neat ideas, I would have liked to try and contribute more (Look at the 2nd most viewed thread in this subforum after the screenshots one, is the one with my wallpapers), but this kind of childish attitude, and some other critisim I won't state here discourages potential contributors, altought it might attract more users 'running away from systemd', and not really trying funtoo because they thought they might like some of the other neat ideas, than just putting effort to block a package from getting installed, wich is what the dev team really does I'd think they would be better and with less work if the policy was just non-solve an redirect to gentoo systemd bugs.



#52
uudruid74

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I would also like to point out that is a shame that the most PR funtoo seems get is because its 'anti-systemd' stance, and even drobbins makes stupid threads just to mock systemd, I think funtoo has more than that and some really neat ideas, I would have liked to try and contribute more (Look at the 2nd most viewed thread in this subforum after the screenshots one, is the one with my wallpapers), but this kind of childish attitude, and some other critisim I won't state here discourages potential contributors, altought it might attract more users 'running away from systemd', and not really trying funtoo because they thought they might like some of the other neat ideas, than just putting effort to block a package from getting installed, wich is what the dev team really does I'd think they would be better and with less work if the policy was just non-solve an redirect to gentoo systemd bugs.

Its a shame you keep going. I use Funtoo because I trust Daniel and his decisions, mainly because we think alike on a lot of issues. I loved Gentoo in the early days, and realized that its decline was because they didn't listen to their founder. Basically, I followed Drobbins here from Gentoo. It was a lucky coincidence that we have similar views on systemd.

To insinuate that we came here because we hate systemd is just more of you lashing out. To do something like that would be childish, and you make this thread personal when you accuse people of childish things. You have a lot to learn.

We don't like systemd because we tried it and evaluated it on its own merits, ran comparisons, and studied its design philosophies and, based upon our experience and how we think a Unix system should be administered, we simply don't think systemd is a good choice. Worse yet, the supporters of systemd, like yourself, feel some need to attack people that don't support your view. You feel that if we don't like systemd, we need to be educated. Well, that's insulting in the extreme! How dare you assume we can't make our own choices?

And the systemd supporters like yourself, mainly due to pressure from Redhat (who's employee created this mess) are removing OUR freedom of choice. Linux had always been about choices and freedoms, and I VIOLENTLY oppose an initiative that seeks to remove the 'Free' from my 'Free Software'.

Give the rest of us some credit and quit pretending we're idiots. Go have fun with systemd, just leave the rest of us out of it.

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#53
j-g-

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Its a shame you keep going. I use Funtoo because I trust Daniel and his decisions, mainly because we think alike on a lot of issues. I loved Gentoo in the early days, and realized that its decline was because they didn't listen to their founder. Basically, I followed Drobbins here from Gentoo. It was a lucky coincidence that we have similar views on systemd.

To insinuate that we came here because we hate systemd is just more of you lashing out. To do something like that would be childish, and you make this thread personal when you accuse people of childish things. You have a lot to learn.

We don't like systemd because we tried it and evaluated it on its own merits, ran comparisons, and studied its design philosophies and, based upon our experience and how we think a Unix system should be administered, we simply don't think systemd is a good choice. Worse yet, the supporters of systemd, like yourself, feel some need to attack people that don't support your view. You feel that if we don't like systemd, we need to be educated. Well, that's insulting in the extreme! How dare you assume we can't make our own choices?

And the systemd supporters like yourself, mainly due to pressure from Redhat (who's employee created this mess) are removing OUR freedom of choice. Linux had always been about choices and freedoms, and I VIOLENTLY oppose an initiative that seeks to remove the 'Free' from my 'Free Software'.

Give the rest of us some credit and quit pretending we're idiots. Go have fun with systemd, just leave the rest of us out of it.

More about me at https://eddon.systems

 

Again, I was perfectly happy not promoting systemd here, actually look around you'll notice the only thread I ever created was the wallpapers one, otherwise have just been responses to others asking about help mostly, It was you and pr1vacy who revived this thread not me.



#54
j-g-

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I'll just leave this here:
 

...

To insinuate that we came here because we hate systemd is just more of you lashing out. To do something like that would be childish, and you make this thread personal when you accuse people of childish things. You have a lot to learn.
...

My only regret is it took systemd for me to serioulsy look at Funtoo. It's great! Super lean and super fast. Best OS in the land!



#55
pr1vacy

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I'll just leave this here:
 

 

Two seperate people. Two seperate opinions(although I agree with all his points)

 

It's two individuals who have arrived at Funtoo for different reasons so I don't get the point you are trying to make.

 

I use gas in my car. You use gas in your car. Does that mean we have the same beliefs?

 

I do hate systemd. FACT. Everything about it. FACT.

 

Why? This is reason enough:

 

e8KRSE6.png

 

Invasive and growing. At this rate there will be only one Linux to choose from. Redhat.



#56
j-g-

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Two seperate people. Two seperate opinions.
 
 
 
It's two individuals who have arrived at Funtoo for different reasons so I don't get the point you are trying to make.
 
I use gas in my car. You use gas in your car. Does that mean we have the same beliefs?
 
I do hate systemd. FACT. Everything about it. FACT.
 
Why? This is reason enough:
 
e8KRSE6.png
 
Invasive and growing. At this rate there will be only one Linux to choose from. Redhat.


My point was and I stated it previously "I have percived funtoo getting pouplarity mainly for not using systemd and taking the position that it will never give support for it, and not the other neat Ideas I think are better than the effort of keeping systmed away and not going the way gentoo did, leaving it to be a choice by the user", I just did't want to keep making this much longer, and I was not talking only about you, but more about other instances I have read around the web also.

Nice picture BTW. I dont hate nor love systemd, I just use it and like some of it's Ideas, the same way I use funtoo and other init systems(BSD) and like some of it's ideas.

 

 

PD: Have you looked into the amount of software that gets maintained by people working at redhat that is kind of defacto among many linux distributions ( e.g. A lot gcc, and the complete coreutils, I think the still maintain sysvinit) and they employed the likes of the once 'Second in Command' in the Linux Kernel Alan Cox for most of his career until retirement? I would actually like that to be less but I'm at least glad they follow the open source model, altough I do suspect that if they decided to be more privative a lot of the clever people working ther would leave, like what happened with Oracle and Sun.



#57
uudruid74

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Invasive and growing. At this rate there will be only one Linux to choose from. Redhat.


The picture doesn't mention udev nor the new systemd-boot which now manages your system before the kernel even loads! I'm wondering how the old LinuxBIOS project is doing ... might be nice to replace my uefi bios with a slim Linux kernel :)

In defense of systemd, I understand the choice to include udev functionality and I likely would have done the same. It makes sense to be able to get the information directly from the kernel as an event source. But, none of the rest of userspace should care which udev you use nor should the original udev be changed. The fact that they saw fit to enforce their idea as the 'one true way' is wrong. They should emulated existing functionality and moved on.

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#58
j-g-

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The picture doesn't mention udev nor the new systemd-boot which now manages your system before the kernel even loads! I'm wondering how the old LinuxBIOS project is doing ... might be nice to replace my uefi bios with a slim Linux kernel :)
 

I think you already know this, but you can do away with the bootloader for UEFI, with the CONFIG_EFI_STUB, and boot the kernel directly from the EFI menu, and compile in your command line arguments, but because of the way you wrote that I guess you don't like UEFI either.

About udev I would say I didn't see the need to put it into the systemd repo when it was being being widely used, and In fact was a shady and totally unnecessary thing to do that in the end only hurted systemd anyway, Kay Sievers is not anyones favorite person in the linux world anyway, it's a shame there was not other better hacker at dealing with the community to take the udev maintance(I think it was his project from the beginning anyway, I wish somebody else had made udev first I guess).

By the way, since you think stdin and stdout are so awesome, this might be of your interest, the presentation is quite interesting. and a document to keep around for reference.

https://www.irill.or...ut-streams-in-c



#59
uudruid74

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I think you already know this, but you can do away with the bootloader for UEFI, with the CONFIG_EFI_STUB, and boot the kernel directly from the EFI menu, and compile in your command line arguments, but because of the way you wrote that I guess you don't like UEFI either.
About udev I would say I didn't see the need to put it into the systemd repo when it was being being widely used, and In fact was a shady and totally unnecessary thing to do that in the end only hurted systemd anyway, Kay Sievers is not anyones favorite person in the linux world anyway, it's a shame there was not other better hacker at dealing with the community to take the udev maintance(I think it was his project from the beginning anyway, I wish somebody else had made udev first I guess).

EFI is fine, UEFI is a joke. And mine is broken. It actually looks for the Microsoft EFI file to boot and none of the standard locations so making dual boot means renaming the MS loader so grub can chain it and putting grub where the MS loader is at ... and any hiccup causes MS to replace its loader which clobbers grub. "Made for Windows8" Luckily, there is "Legacy Mode" and I gave up on dual boot anyway.

As for udev ... its had a long history. I only assume they have good reason for getting the kernel hotplug events as I can see a use for that in their "kdbus" scheme, but as you said, its been mismanaged.



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#60
Renich

Renich

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Please stop. There are no lies nor exaggerations, just relations of personal experience ... from highly experienced people no less. For example, I'm not a moron and I can make GDM stop respawning! SO, instead of insinuating that I'm too dumb to make it stop, I obviously had some other point I was making.

My point is that only systemd seems to think that this is a good idea! Even systems that (erroneously IMHO) respawn a service that dies, will refuse to do so without limits on the rate. This is absolutely dangerous and can bring a system to its knees. What if it died due to low memory? Running it again could cause something ELSE to die. If I wanted automatic service respawn, I'd have Nagios do it and it would be done right, and it would never respawn twice in 10 minutes, and would send me a text every time it did, with additional limits per hour/day/etc.

The auto restart of services shows the mindset of the systemd developers. Us old Unix admins want to find the problem, fix it, then start the service ourself. Systemd tries to be "easy" and basically 'reboots' the service. Its Windows oriented thinking!

Your constant use of personal attacks shows us you are frustrated because you have nothing relevant to contribute. Please stop calling everyone liars. Its not helping your argument.

As for logs, I don't understand why you pretend its not an issue when you can just read the bug report that the logs get corrupt. And how compatible is all this with syslog? I want all my logs on one machine and when something goes dead, I read it on the log server. Does journalctl filter by machine? Or can systemd even handle syslog content from another machine without sending it through syslog?

But I can install another system log to get the features I want ... wait ... Why would I switch to systemd which tries to take over a service, just to proxy it right back to the service that was supposed to handle it in the first place? You are building a house of cards with your server. You say systemd is modular, but your definition is different than mine. In my book, modular means that when my SATA drive dies, I can replace it with another from ANY vendor. Systemd is locking out the alternatives and so we can't easily replace those modules. Thus, its NOT modular, but maybe sectional. It does not play nice with others and so it will be punished with exile.

Again, there is no benefit to using systemd, just stuff getting in my way. You talk of negligible latencies ... but what do I get in return for the latency? TROUBLE! Just dump systemd and use a real syslog.

When I hear systemd, I think of that Taylor Swift song ... "I knew you were trouble when you walked in ..."



More about me at https://eddon.systems

 

Man, you are too defensive. You keep saying you're not dumb and all but I haven't found the part where they call you dumb. As I see it, you're the one assaulting g-j- while he, objectively, writes his opinion on things, backing it with code. 

 

Please, do your best to defend your point in the same way or as best as you can. Bashing people gain you anything. Remember, respect is earned, not asked for.


It's hard to be free... but I love to struggle. Love isn't asked for; it's just given. Respect isn't asked for; it's earned!
Renich Bon Ciric
 



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