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mlinuxgada

Funtoo release model

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Hi Guys, 

Yesterday I decided to switch to 1.3 rel. After syncing, some packages were marked for downgrade. I've red the "Upgrade to 1.3" notes, several discussions, etc ...

My questions are:
  - whats the funtoo release model - rolling or some sort of freeze releases, with some marked as LTS

 - is there a way to be/stay always in current, eg to use as before, as a rolling distro

Regards, M. 

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2 hours ago, pfl said:

Hi,

you can read here about the changes on funtoo 1.3. Take a look at the "Kit Snapshots" section.

https://www.funtoo.org/Release_Notes/1.3-release.

 

Your second question is answered in this Ticket:

https://bugs.funtoo.org/browse/FL-6219?focusedCommentId=40375&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-40375

Hi @pfl,

So, in short there is no way atm to use current, right?

Also, dunno whats the problem half of the users/or even more/ to use current. Thats one of the reasons to use rolling release distro.

Maybe, if there is really no way to stay in current, I will stop using Funtoo. Feel sad, before Funtoo used Gentoo, SourceMage, Lunar ... source based distros are fun to use in fact.

Thanks anyway.

2 hours ago, pfl said:

Regards

 

 

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I don't know much about Daniel's decision making process or about how ego and Funtoo kits work.  What I do know is that I want a stable OS that gives me a large amount of control with minimal effort.  No other distro gives us this level of control and stability for this level of effort.  I am willing to give up the rolling release model if it helps Daniel perfect the cost/benefit ratios of Funtoo. 

I don't want to fight with my computer systems, I want to use them.  The same is true for my friends, my family, and their businesses.  It can take a lot of time and effort to keep a production server stable without worrying about a rolling release model that builds a major system malfunction into the OS every six months.  People will put up with a lot of things in life but smart people will not but up with wasted time.  Most people won't use Funtoo because they see source based distros as a waste of time.  I think addressing those concerns is vital to the future of the Funtoo project if it is going to grow financially.  My best guess is that if the project doesn't grow financially it will not expand far beyond what we have now because Daniel needs to feed a family and pay his bills.

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Hi @mlinuxgada

1 hour ago, mlinuxgada said:

So, in short there is no way atm to use current, right? 

At least no official supported way. What you could do is to create your own kits.

https://www.funtoo.org/Creating_Your_Own_Meta-Repo_and_Kits

I made a first shoot but this docu looks a little bit outdated and I faced some issues. I didn't had the time to step deeper into it.

If you do so I would love to hear about your experiences.

1 hour ago, mlinuxgada said:

Also, dunno whats the problem half of the users/or even more/ to use current. Thats one of the reasons to use rolling release distro.

I'm also not sure if most the users will now help with the Development or if they are searching for alternatives. But in fact a less changing Distro will break less which means less maintenance.

Regards

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In a way I can understand both sides. The need to have a "snapshot" to have a version that is stable but also the need to have new versions available when needed. I came to gentoo and now funtoo because I always ran into problems with binary distributions when I wanted to install some package just to find out that this package did need a library or other dependency that was not available for the current release. And installing the dependencies lead to conflicts in the system. Without current or latest versions being available funtoo doesn't offer that benefit anymore. There are still ways to do it manually but it would work better integrated into the system, especially if those manually installed versions become part of a new stable system.

What I don't quite understand is, why you can't have both?

Yes, a stable version or release is good to have, as users can just use that and development has it easier to fix bugs. And it gives experimental users a "fallback" version, if something goes wrong with the system. But that doesn't exclude making newer versions available as early as possible. It would be easy to mark them accordingly, may that be a use flag, a special kit or something else. So the default would be a stable version and a user could choose to see all available versions or e.g. just for some packages. And handling problems with experimental versions could be done as today. Either no support at all, "best effort support" or community support.

And I don't agree with @drobbins statement in the bug report:

Quote

So, if we have a rolling release then half the users switch to using bleeding edge branches and can no longer help with development.

I think the opposite could be true. As the users that chosse to install experimental software are mostly the ones that have the knowledge to fix the arising problems and can help with development. Having both types of users is the key here. Users running the stable version can help fixing problems with the stable version but "experimental" users can help in both worlds. Those experimental users might have not stable systems in general but might not be completely unstable, if they e.g. just upgraded part of their system. So they could still help with problems in the stable version. And, when the former experimental versions become part of a new stable release, the knowledge for those newer verions is already there and some bugs probably fixed before they occur in a stable release. Not to mention that the more experienced users are or at least have the knowledge to run multiple versions of funtoo.

So, if package versions, which are newer than the latest stable version, are clearly marked (e.g. with an experimental use flag) and users need to manually switch to the experimental version and maybe get a appropiate warning about the consequences of that switch, I see no problem in offering both worlds at the same time. A stable version and "cutting edge" technology.

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