nrc

I think this would be helpful to give people who are curious about Funtoo and how a portage based systems work.  I think most people assume that updates and maintenance are more painful than they really are.j
 
Thanks for your effort.

Thanks, Funtoo!
 
Thanks, Daniel and others and for every contribution. It was a long journey, but now from a Kubuntu background I'm in the process of adopting a Funtoo system with KDE Plasma 5.
 
Regards

I am very thankful for Funtoo's existance. I'm really glad that you guys(the team) are still maintaining it and I hope it continues for long. I began with Gentoo and I found it incredibly frustrating, and after hours of work I found out my touchpad didn't work with Gentoo kernel. Funtoo on the other hand has been a dream and everything I wanted in a system, I made an account to lurk about and share whatever I can to show community.
 
Thank you, long live!

It's been pretty quiet lately so I want to throw in another "thank you" to the crew that creates and maintains Funtoo.  I discovered Funtoo as a way to fight systemd but I've been really pleased at what a great all-around distro it's proven to be.  So, "Thanks!"
 
Obligatory systemd hate: http://suckless.org/sucks/systemd

It's been pretty quiet lately so I want to throw in another "thank you" to the crew that creates and maintains Funtoo.  I discovered Funtoo as a way to fight systemd but I've been really pleased at what a great all-around distro it's proven to be.  So, "Thanks!"
 
Obligatory systemd hate: http://suckless.org/sucks/systemd

Unfortunately a lot of people have bought into the misinformation that you can't have a modern Linux distro without systemd.    Spread the word. http://without-systemd.org/

;)
 
On a sidenote...but relative as it's an example of some attitudes toward systemd....was installing profile-sync-dameon...ie..psd....and ended up seeing this...read down a bit at the NOTE FOR VERSION 6:
 
https://github.com/graysky2/profile-sync-daemon
 
Some people are just lazy.

As uudruid74 pointed out earlier in the thread, Funtoo doesn't exist to provide you with the "industry standard" anything.  If that alienates someone then Funtoo isn't the right distribution for them anyway.
 
To quote the Wiki: "Funtoo Linux is a project of people who agree with the philosophy of the ideal tool, and who are passionate in our desire to improve technology to be as close to this ideal as possible."   That's the purpose of Funtoo - for the BDFL and like-minded individuals to pursue the ideal tool in each instance and share the results with those of similar mindset.
 
"The ideal tool" is similar to the "small, sharp tools" that are the core of the UNIX philosophy.  Not only does systemd run counter to that philosophy as an init system but it also pre-empts attempts to create "the ideal tool" in many of the technologies that have fallen prey to its all-consuming hunger to control every aspect of your system.  Elegant tools like boot-update and Funtoo's core networking templates would be rendered moot by systemd imposed kludges.
 
Simply put, systemd is contradictory to the core principle of Funtoo.  Funtoo with systemd wouldn't be Funtoo.
 
 
All those choices weren't based on merit.  Some distributions chose systemd because they had little other choice.  Redhat controls many of the projects they rely on and they felt that they didn't have the resources to create replacements or deal with all the incompatibilities that Poettering was creating.
 
Fortunately the smaller distributions that have declined to adopt systemd have made better progress at working around those issues than some thought would be possible at this stage.
 
 
The opinion that you're expressing contradicts the Funtoo vision.   If you want systemd you don't understand that vision and you're using the wrong distribution.

As uudruid74 pointed out earlier in the thread, Funtoo doesn't exist to provide you with the "industry standard" anything.  If that alienates someone then Funtoo isn't the right distribution for them anyway.
 
To quote the Wiki: "Funtoo Linux is a project of people who agree with the philosophy of the ideal tool, and who are passionate in our desire to improve technology to be as close to this ideal as possible."   That's the purpose of Funtoo - for the BDFL and like-minded individuals to pursue the ideal tool in each instance and share the results with those of similar mindset.
 
"The ideal tool" is similar to the "small, sharp tools" that are the core of the UNIX philosophy.  Not only does systemd run counter to that philosophy as an init system but it also pre-empts attempts to create "the ideal tool" in many of the technologies that have fallen prey to its all-consuming hunger to control every aspect of your system.  Elegant tools like boot-update and Funtoo's core networking templates would be rendered moot by systemd imposed kludges.
 
Simply put, systemd is contradictory to the core principle of Funtoo.  Funtoo with systemd wouldn't be Funtoo.
 
 
All those choices weren't based on merit.  Some distributions chose systemd because they had little other choice.  Redhat controls many of the projects they rely on and they felt that they didn't have the resources to create replacements or deal with all the incompatibilities that Poettering was creating.
 
Fortunately the smaller distributions that have declined to adopt systemd have made better progress at working around those issues than some thought would be possible at this stage.
 
 
The opinion that you're expressing contradicts the Funtoo vision.   If you want systemd you don't understand that vision and you're using the wrong distribution.

Sorry to reply to an old post, but just saw this ...
 
 
You are complaining that Funtoo isn't a serious alternative because its not like everyone else?  IMHO, its the ONLY alternative!  It's not much of an alternative if its exactly the same as everyone else.  And not giving you a choice?  Uhmm ... we aren't getting a choice from any of the mainstream distros, and they have way more resources to maintain different "choices".  I think you should bug them to support OpenRC!  That would be more fair.
 
As for why the other distros chose to switch, its because of systemd's practices (Embrance, Extend, Extinguish?  Anyone else remember that philosophy?) where it looked like they would have to maintain such projects as udev and policykit and Gnome by themselves because of systemd dependencies.  At the time the decision was made, that was the way it looked.  Now, thanks to a very few people (wish I could remember their names, they need to be thanked and sponsored) those projects have non-systemd ports.  We may get Gnome a couple months late, but we get it.
 
Funtoo is the brainchild of our BDFL ... if you trust him on the rest of the OS, trust him on this issue too.  In either case, its not a Democracy :)  You don't get to choose.  It IS Open-Source, so you could fork it, or back-port the changes to Gentoo and then run systemd all you want.    Just don't call it Funtoo if it runs systemd.   However, when it comes to drinking the systemd Kool-Aid or the Funtoo Kool-Aid, I choose Funtoo.

GNU and the the Free Software Foundation have nothing to do with putting users first.  They are idealogical organizations who expect users to sacrifice their own interests to further their agenda.

No, they're just other people's opinions and experiences.  The fact that they're different than yours doesn't disprove them.
 
 
Systemd is exactly what Kernighan and Pike referred to as a "monolithic self-sufficient subsystem."   It's a collection of tightly coupled binaries, each of which does more than any single program intended for its purpose should in a UNIX-like environment. 
 
It has nothing to do with hardware and OS bundling.  We're talking about the UNIX philosophy - portability across hardware was a key attribute from day one.  They were specifically talking about what programs do and how they interoperate.   
 
Your comments suggest that you're not familiar with the UNIX philosophy.  Wikipedia has an entry that is a good starting place to learn more about it.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy
 
You're free to think that the UNIX philosophy isn't really important today.   I believe that it was a key factor that enabled much of what we enjoy in the open source world today and that's important to maintaining those benefits in the future.
 

Your numbers here are nonsense.  The systemd main function pulls in tens of thousands of lines of code from other source files.  Do you really believe that 2k of code compiles into a 1.5MB executable for systemd but 40KB for sysvint?   We're talking about a binary that is forty times larger.
 

A person of the age that I seem in my picture recognizes that when someone says something ridiculous sometimes it's better to laugh at it than bother to argue with it.
 

I don't care if you like systemd. Feel free to use a distribution that supports systemd.  You can sing its praises in the forums for those distros to your heart's content and you will never find me there arguing with you.
 
I believe that systemd and the mindset that spawned it is harmful to Linux and open source in general.  I believe that it's important that we continue to have distributions that are dedicated to working without it.  For that reason I support Funtoo and I will argue against anyone who comes here and claims that systemd is a good thing or that Funtoo should support it.

ROTFLMAO! Thanks! I needed that. Been a long day ... week ... decade. Made me laugh

If anyone is interested in learning systemd (not SystemD...they get whiny over improper case use) then look here:
 
https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdCrashAndMore
http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/systemd-assumptions-bullying-consent.html
 
Init Systems
 
Truth

You don't seem to understand what Kernighan is saying. It's true that memory constraints played a roll in the creation of early UNIX tools but as Kernighan says in the interview, "Necessity is the mother of invention."  That invention - the UNIX philosophy of small tools interacting with one another - continued on its own merit for decades after memory constraints ceased to be a consideration. 
 
As Kernighan and Pike wrote in 1984, "[The UNIX] style was based on the use of tools: using programs separately or in combination to get a job done, rather than doing it by hand, by monolithic self-sufficient subsystems, or by special-purpose, one-time programs."
 
 

You never established that anyone was lying about anything. It's rude to claim that someone is lying just because you don't understand or agree with their point of view.
 
 
Binary log files are not acceptable.  Using a binary format renders them susceptible to corruption and creates a source of problems and incompatibility among tools.
 
Text log files don't require any special tools.  I can use essentially the same tools to examine logs on any system going back to my first UNIX system from 1984.   I don't need to worry about whether my rescue thumb drive has the right version of some specialized utility on it. 
 
Every excuse for adopting binary logs could have been addressed with proper configuration of existing tools and development of user space tools that met the specific needs that were unmet.
 
Your comment about reading manuals is specious.   The fact that many here switched to Funtoo from other distros proves that this has everything to do with philosophical objections to systemd and nothing to do with unwillingness to inability to learn something new.
 

Really?
 
 
 

I think Poettering already put his toe in the water on this last year with his rant about how mean the Linux Kernel maintainer's list is.  Either he didn't get a sympathetic enough response or he's waiting because he's already got enough on his plate.
 
I have to say that I'm pleased with the way the contra-systemd Linux world has developed in the past year.  A year ago Poettering seemed quiet confident that he had built a dependency trap that would make distributions without systemd undesirable if not completely impractical.  For a while it seemed questionable whether the contra-systemd community would have enough critical mass to tackle some of the more sticky problems that he was creating.
 
Fortunately the developer community has already come through and solved many of those problems and a sustainable ecosystem of alternative solutions appears to have developed.  Ultimately I think this is a good thing. Even as a long time Redhat user it's clear to me that the commercial distros have gained too much weight in pushing the development of Linux to suit their agenda.  It was time to take Linux back from them and it feels like we have the beginnings of that.

win8 work with windows 10

I came straight to Funtoo so I can't speak from experience on Gentoo but I know that I like some of the things that are frequently noted as differences.
 
The profile system makes it easy to create a build that is very specific to your needs.
 
The git based portage system is fast and efficient.
 
The network configuration tools seem simple, logical, and effective for me as UNIX/Linux old timer.
 
The boot-update tool gives me control of my boot process without the pain of dealing directly with grub2.
 
I believe it's important to pursue alternatives to systemd and Funtoo does not support systemd.

I spent quite a while figuring out how to get tab completion to work in sftp, so I figured I'd document it here.  I had to enable the libedit flag for openssh.  My /etc/portage/package.use file now contains this line:
 
>=net-misc/openssh-6.8_p1-r3 libedit
 
 

Funtoo uses a forked version of openrc because some of its unique features - networking configuration in particular - are tied into the rc scripts.  Getting the gentoo version working would probably require quite a lot of work.
 
If there's a feature in the newer version that you need you should probably open an issue in the bug tracking system.

What they think it is:

What it really is:

Funtoo uses a forked version of openrc because some of its unique features - networking configuration in particular - are tied into the rc scripts.  Getting the gentoo version working would probably require quite a lot of work.
 
If there's a feature in the newer version that you need you should probably open an issue in the bug tracking system.

GNU and the the Free Software Foundation have nothing to do with putting users first.  They are idealogical organizations who expect users to sacrifice their own interests to further their agenda.

What they think it is:

What it really is:

What they think it is:

What it really is: