rasmusjc

This response is very disappointing to me......... WIth all due respect, this is one type of the responses I see day in and day out on the Gentoo forums, and I was hoping to see better here. I'll say my piece here.....then I'll be quiet after this. 1. To address the response above: Let me ask you a question......Do you honestly think that If I had not done my homework, that I would have had a functioning systemd package up until this last upgrade that rendered my system unbootable? I think the answer to that is 'NO'. I have been running Gnome 3 (cinammon) with systemd for over a couple of years successfully. I am aware that udev is included with systemd (but in reality with the portage packages on Gentoo, there is a systemd-udev package that also has to be installed to have the systemd udev support). I have a 4 year old custom HP laptop with a 3.8Ghz Extreme Dual Core 2 Intel processor that still runs circles around any i7 core that I've come across, and it does have some older internal peripherals that aren't fully supported by the current systemd/udev packages, which is why I have had the older udev overlaid with the systemd package so that the code will still be there and in use with the systemd. The lastest upgrade had me remove Udev entirely, and then has shown that systemd doesn't support my peripheral (including the SATA interface portion), but, now, for the first time....Portage does not let me install systemd, udev, gudev, or the systemd-udev packages due to slot conflicts, conflicts, package-masks, etc. It is really silly and leaves me with an unbootable machine....for no other reason than somebody thought they were being clever with portage. 2. Your response disappoints me because it appears you reached back to the standard response with a premise that 'The Users are dumb and don't know what they're doing." So you proceeded to tell me I hadn't done my homework, when, in fact, I was working because I did do my homework. I was hoping you could pick up that you weren't talking to the average run of the mill user, or that you would assume your users might have some intelligence. Apparently I was too optimistic. FYI - I have been a Software Engineer for 40 years, and a good part of my job has been to set up Linux Kernels for ARMs, PowerPCs, Intel, Freescale, and TI embedded processors and DSP, so please excuse me when I might get a little offended at your response. 3. In this particular situation with Systemd, I would hope Funtoo would not have the conflict or packing problems with systemd that I've encountered with Gentoo, but your response makes me think that Funtoo does have the same problems. Anyhow, this has been very revealing to me, and I now have something to think about in deciding if I should get involved with Funtoo. I guess I will decide by the end of the Month. Thanks for the replies. --James

Ok, thanks for the replies....maybe I will try Funtoo by the end of this month as my schedule permits. I do need to get my main machine back up. To answer the question about what I mean about being 'unbootable'........I have systemd on my system that still seems to depend on udev also being installed (or my internal peripherals like SATA or Serial Ports are not found). It had been working until I tried to update to the next version of xorg-server which triggered a lot of updates on my system....gdm and systemd. However, systemd suddenly wouldn't install because udev was also installed and I had to uninstall it so I could get systemd to install (I hope you don't mind if I don't use the portage terminology at this point). Anyhow, I tried to install the new udev and gudev packages that are supposed to use the new systemd, but suddenly I now have conflicts with systemd, udev, gudev, and gdm and NONE of them will install/reinstall. Bottom Line: Udev no longer correctly understands my SATA interfaces, and comes to a hard stop in maintenance mode, which turns off the system when it enters. My only recourse now is to boot off of a live rescue DVD, or simply reinstall the system. I'm tired of this and am looking for something like, hopefully, funtoo where portage packages will simply install instead of telling me I can't (feels like it refuses to update because it doesn't want to). Anyhow, thanks again for the replies. --James

Hi Guys, If this is not the type of discussion wanted here, please feel free to delete this post. I am looking at replacing Gentoo after years of running it on my main laptop.....once again I am sitting with a laptop that won't boot due to yet another portage package upgrade that either had 1) dependent packages that the ebuild didn't know to check for, 2) had a package that it decided couldn't be resident, yet didn't pull in a replacement so now I have a 'hole' in my system executable that no longer runs, 3) changed around my configuration files without even asking thereby breaking my system, 4) package installed but still won't work with other packages, ...... You get the idea. This happens to me about twice a year, and it always takes me 4 - 6 weeks before I can either figure out what is wrong, or I end up reinstalling the whole system. I'm at one of those impasses now. I typically like to run the latest software on my machine rather than stick to a 'stable' distro that takes years before they update to the devices I need to program on. I especially will take the standard stock kernels from kernel.org and run the latest when it is available. So, I'd be interested in what the responses to the following questions would be: 1. Has Funtoo been known to render a computer unbootable and unrecoverable (as in what I am facing with Gentoo now)? 2. What is the emphasis on creating the ebuilds? 3. Do the ebuild developers of the different packages actually fix the source code of the package to get it to work (or at least keep it from crashing), or is the emphasis only on making the package compile and install? 4. Am I still going to have to fight package masking, preserved libs, and new slot conflicting/file collisions every time I upgrade (I have had major problems with Gentoo on these very issues)? The responses I receive will determine how much forward I go with this distribution. I certainly hope you guys are more tolerant as I've gotten to the point of knowing that it is pointless asking for help on the Gentoo forums because I will either get flamed, get severly questioned as to why I can't do things like everyone else in the world, or get no answer because nobody understands the source code. Thanks. --James