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Funtoo Linux BDFL
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Posts posted by drobbins

  1. @zoggalso, I should say that I do appreciate you connecting and communicating your thoughts. For someone who is not as involved, perception is the reality. So I will look at what I can do to improve this, and welcome your involvement as well to try to address these things.

    For roadmap, a lot of this has come down to LACK OF TRUST. On freenode, I had people actually doing 'silent forks' of Funtoo and ripping off my ideas. I have had people who I have told about future plans start to try to do them -- but leave me out! So many people are trying to 'make a splash' in software, and are not necessarily ethical about how they do it. So I am bitter about this. I am bitter because I actually LIKE to share my future ideas, but I have been REPEATEDLY BURNED by doing this. So now I am cautious. A lot of this relates to why we left freenode even before it self-imploded. There was too much 'sniping' of ideas and 'fake friends' who were just trying to get some ideas that they lacked themselves. But without any collaborative spirit. And even some outright nastiness. I got sick of it. I decided we'll move to discord, and have more of an independent space. And it will piss off some people -- but fortunately some of the people I pissed off (not all for sure) were those I wanted to get away from!

    So yes, there is a lot of bitterness about this. And then being asked to share more -- you can imagine how this triggers a lot of unpleasant feelings. Damned if I do, damned, if I don't. You probably had no idea you were touching such a nerve when you made your original post. So much to unpack here. This will at least be an interesting thread for people to read.

  2. @zogg do not take my rantings personally... it is not a response to you.... more like some sadness regarding open source in 2021 and some unpleasant attitudes, which you have stumbled into by accident, and these attitudes tend to 'trigger' me due to chronic irritation regarding some of these issues you have touched on. I do think of course your opinions are valid, if maybe not accurate, but as an 'outsider' I will factor them into account and see what we can do to communicate better.

    In the mean time, I encourage you to get involved and try to submit a PR for something you care about, and see how it goes... then you will be on the 'inside' making Funtoo better and I assure you it's better on the inside. Take the red pill 🙂 🙂


  3. 36 minutes ago, dutch-master said:

    Linux, and Funtoo, are international. His (her?) native language (very likely) may not be English. Nor is mine 😉  It also means (s)he may not be aware of 'social rules' that govern (online) conversation in English. And even so, discussions on the web always miss a vital component in human interaction: non-verbal communication. Body-language. Smileys, and by extension emoticons, are a way to circumvent this, but generally do a poor job, TBH.🙂

    Also, frankly, I think that distros are now treated as commodities where somehow it is expected that we are supposed to 'prove to users' that they should use us instead of some other distro. Really, this is the attitude these days. And I don't really like this attitude. Asking for a roadmap is a perfect example of this attitude -- it asks very much of Funtoo, while offering very little -- nothing, really -- of personal opinion of what the individual is actually wanting. Like we should just wave our hands and promise random impressive things because we are trying to win your loyalty. If you look at our bug tracker, and our wiki, you will understand that this distro is run by users. We don't have a formal development team. Issues are opened by users. Any feature can be asked for, as long as justification is provided which can even be as minimal as that you are personally interested in this feature. (and this is explained on our bug tracker if you go to open a bug) So I have worked hard to create a model that empowers users -- but also gives users responsibility -- to move improvements forward by getting involved. I feel like expecting a roadmap is the inverse. It implies a model of development that is the opposite of this. We are not here to serve you, but to create a fun, collaborative environment that you can participate in, if you choose. Having a roadmap means you are not involved, and you are just being served. And this is a model for pure commercial software where you are paying money to have something delivered to you. That is not what we are doing here. It is a total shift in thinking --  from a "what can you do for me mentality" to a "you are part of a dynamic community" mindset.

    There is a lot to unpack here, even beyond this specific annoyance, regarding how Open Source works in 2021 as compared to a decade or even 20 years ago. A lot of open source is happening under a corporate umbrella. Pure community projects simply have a smaller pool of true volunteer contributors. This isn't an issue with Funtoo but an issue with how for-profit startups and tech companies are pulling talent into their web of for-profit activities. Some of these companies have questionable value to society, even though they are making money. But if you ask the typical person, they are busy. Too busy. And we can unpack this more and look at how in the US and other countries, we have less leisure time and it is more expensive to provide for a family. Which means we are driven to work more, not less. It's all a recipe to steal personal time that used to be used for contributing to your favorite community project in your spare time. And I think that's sad.

    So I actually have strong opinions on these things that align with @zogg in many ways, but these problems are bigger than Funtoo. Funtoo is doing quite well considering. I am very focused on these modern challenges, but they are non-trivial to solve. But we are making good progress.

    And this goes back to my point about prioritizing working on solutions to the bigger problems.

  4. @zoggI think you are not looking in the right places to see the activity. The obvious place to look is code.funtoo.org and the bug tracker, not forums. The forums are not a 'central' part of the work. This is why, I think, your comments were taken as trolling. Instead of drawing conclusions that maybe Funtoo is dead (which no project wants to hear) and that we should provide a way to migrate to Gentoo (which is somewhat offensive to many), maybe it would have been better to ask "am I looking in the right places". Requesting a roadmap is maybe a lazy person's way -- putting the burden on us -- to show you where we are going -- where if you were looking in the right places you would already have much more knowledge.

    So I think a lot of the trolling response is also due to how you asked, and tried to draw conclusions before being sure you were looking in the correct places. So there is some contribution to this by your conversational style.

    All that being said, I am very glad to hear you are not trolling and are wanting Funtoo to succeed. Me too 😉

  5. 9 hours ago, lego12239 said:

    🙂 Daniel, i have only 2 kids and no free time at all. I want to send a few patches for funtoo network scripts infrastructure duringabout several month, but  I stupidly do not have enough time for this :-D. How do you manage all this :-D?

    I try to do a little every day. For example, the new 'next' release, which has been in planning for over a year, is now live and ready for contributions... This will be of interest to @zogg and others who want to be part of updating Funtoo without breaking stuff for 1.4-release users. See: 


  6. Oops, I forgot to tell you how to set up next-release. You have two options. One is to use the stage3 to install a new next system. The other option is to convert an existing system to next-release.

    To convert a system to next-release:

    1. Do a world update on your system and specifically ensure you have the latest portage and ego installed.
    2. Add "release = next" to the "[global]" section of /etc/ego.conf
    3. Run "ego sync"
    4. Then run "epro build next".

    Now you are ready to do another world update to get gcc, binutils and other updates.

    PLEASE NOTE: When you do this, unless you have a very very minimal system, I can almost guarantee that doing an emptytree rebuild WILL result in some packages not building. So be prepared for this and don't do this on production systems of course! Feel free to open bugs for any build failures, particularly for any DE or server packages that need gcc10 fixes.

    ALSO PLEASE NOTE: We reserve the right to break or make disruptive changes in next-release AT ANY TIME! While I am going to try to do things as cleanly as possible, and ensure that the stage3 continues to build, you should be prepared for potential dep issues and other problems that may be annoying to deal with. This is part of the whole process of updating Funtoo that you are embarking upon!

  7. Hi All,

    I wanted to let everyone know about "next" release -- which is the new release of Funtoo that is intended to receive regular updates to all the latest packages.

    Currently, a generic_64 build of next-release is available here:


    'next' release currently includes gcc-11.2.0 and an updated unified binutils (binutils and binutils-libs have been combined, and binutils-config has been removed.) It also has a small handful of updated packages.

    Our intention is to gradually add more and more auto-generated ebuilds to 'next' so that it is fully updated at all times. Next-release *may* break -- and if you use next-release, you should be aware of this. Right now, the stage3 is building but it's likely that DE's like GNOME, KDE, Cinnamon, MATE will need gcc10 fixes for certain packages to build properly. I'm hoping to generally keep the stage3 functioning at all times as we gradually update everything inside next-release to be current. We at least have a working stage3 as a starting point :) And it's fine to test DE's and open issues for any ebuilds that don't build -- so we can all start working on fixing them.


    So, since Funtoo is a user-based distribution, we provide a way for you, technical user, to help us in our goal of updating next-release. I am particularly interested in autogens for various ebuilds in the stage3. If you would like to autogen something on the stage3, all you need to do is open a bug at https://bugs.funtoo.org, entitled something like "autogen sys-apps/foo in next-release". Then describe what you would like to do and why. I think the most obvious candidates for autogens are stand-alone tools like gzip, for example, which are not libraries. These are the easiest initial candidates. Once your bug has been reviewed, it will be moved to a "ready to fix" state, at which point it will be possible to submit a PR to code.funtoo.org. Here are the steps to create a PR:

    1. Create Funtoo account at https://auth.funtoo.org/new (you need this for the bug tracker and code.funtoo.org)
    2. Open an issue on the bug tracker (improvement) for the package you would like to autogen.
    3. Talk to us in #dev-help on Funtoo Discord for help in writing your autogen.
    4. When the issue moves to 'ready to fix', you are ready to submit your PR.
    5. To create your PR, first fork the kit-fixups repo on code.funtoo.org. Then on the bug tracker issue, click "create branch", and choose your forked repo (myname/kit-fixups) as where the branch will live, and make your branch a "feature" against master. Give your branch the name of the bug, like "feature/FL-9000".
    6. On your local system, "git pull; git checkout feature/FL-9000". Now do the edits...
    7. When creating your files, you can put them in kit-fixups/core-kit/next/sys-apps/foo, for example. This will make the autogen active for next release only. This is a good, conservative place to put it (rather than in 1.4-release too, which is what would happen if you added it to kit-fixups/core-kit/curated/sys-apps/foo.) When you're all done: "git add new files, git commit -a -m "FL-9000: description here."
    8. Then "git push", and you will see a URL on your console you can use to create your PR. Click on it, and create the PR against core-repositories/kit-fixups master.

    You may get comments on your PR -- you can simply do new commits to your "feature/FL-9000" branch and they will automatically appear in the PR without any additional steps when you push to your branch.

    Also note that I have a bunch of issues I created for "funtoo-izing" various packages, which was my way of saying "autogen them and put them in next-release." You can find these bugs listed under this epic link (see the associated issues) and if you want to update any of these packages, you can simply "start work" on any of these bugs by clicking the "start work" button and then follow the steps above (minus creating the issue -- since you're using an existing one):


    Thanks in advance for your involvement with next-release. This will be fun!

  8. @zogg I will answer you.

    "From recent activity it seems like funtoo development (except autogenerated updates mostly) is getting to mostly none, including activity even in on this forum."

    This is an interesting and funny perspective, because it's actually just the opposite. Funtoo is more active than it has ever been, and we are starting to collaborate with Sabayon on next-gen projects, and we have been growing our Funtoo dev team too.

    One thing to realize is that Gentoo has 200+ developers and Funtoo up until recently has had maybe 2-3 developers at most active at a time, but often just one. Think of that. Over the past decade, what was often 'powering' Funtoo, was JUST ONE GUY. Sometimes -- many times -- it was not even me but a more junior developer.

    Why? Because I am often busy -- I have a full time job and also a toddler, a wife, two kids in college, and two more kids in elementary and middle school 🙂

    Now we have like 10 actively contributing it seems. So 3x-10x growth in the last few months is actually huge. And we seem to now be getting an influx of people from Gentoo (we don't actively try to recruit users or devs from Gentoo, so this is just an observation and not a 'boast'.)

    But I actually DO understand why you have your perspective. It is a PERSPECTIVE, but not reality.

    But it's interesting to wonder: why do you have this perspective?

    It is probably because you are incorrectly trying to compare the work of 200+ people to what has often been just the work of 1-2 people.

    Is that fair? I don't think so. But I am sure you can 'sense' that there is often fewer package updates and general upheaval than in Gentoo. Some people actually LIKE this about Funtoo!

    The reality is that actually we are doing many things that Gentoo is not doing, and solving problems that Gentoo is not solving. But these problems are not glamorous, and take time, and we care more about solving these problems than giving you the latest crap to run on your computer.

    I'm quite content with our progress. But I don't think that Funtoo is a distro for everyone, and if you feel that Gentoo is more up-to-date or aligns better with what you want, by all means please use it. It doesn't matter to me what you use. No one here is going to try to persuade you to use Funtoo. If you don't see the point in using it, then use something else.

    The reason why you did not understand @nrc is because you don't get an important point. You are assuming that Funtoo and Gentoo are trying to do the same thing, and be the same thing, and trying to get you to pick one over the other.

    This is actually not true.

    That is why you do not understand.

    So now that I have addressed the 2/3 of your post that was a troll, I can address your legitimate question -- update on the current state, and roadmap/future of the project.

    The current state is that the project is rapidly growing and we are working on getting our growing team to work well together. So we are recently moving beyond 1-2 devs into the 5-10 active devs range.

    Autogens will continue to be added to the tree by users. Thanks to user contributions we now have MATE stage3's available for download as well as updated Enlightenment.

    As far as I am aware, financially, Funtoo has more funding/resources available to it than the entire Gentoo project despite our small size, is fully independent of any external influences regarding our future, and I expect this to continue to be the reality. I have been regularly sending cryptocurrency to our most active volunteers as a 'thank you' from the Funtoo community for their contributions.

    We will continue to prioritize new and interesting ways of solving complex technical challenges rather than expending huge amounts of manual effort to maintain tens of thousands of packages.

    While we do this, we also hope that you will find Funtoo to be a useful tool for desktop workstation, laptop as well as dev and production servers for amd64 and arm(64) architectures, as well as riscv, which is being worked on.

    For everything else, you will find out about it when it is announced 😉

    As always, Funtoo is a user-centric project so if there is something you want, you are encouraged to not be shy and explain why you personally want it on the bug tracker and if it is reasonable, the issue will be approved and a PR can then be submitted.





  9. Recent updates to the Portage tree will cause Portage to want to rebuild nearly everything on Funtoo systems. When you experience this after a world update, there is a way to avoid rebuilding everything. To work around this, run the following script as root:

    import os
    bad_flags = {"abi_riscv_lp64", "abi_riscv_lp64d"}
    for dp, dn, fn in os.walk("/var/db/pkg"):
        for targ_fn in [ "IUSE", "IUSE_EFFECTIVE" ]:
            if targ_fn not in fn:
            usep = os.path.join(dp, targ_fn)
            with open(usep, "r") as usef:
                old_dat = usef.read()
                old_flags = set(old_dat.split())
                new_flags = old_flags - bad_flags
            if old_flags == new_flags:
            with open(usep + ".bak", "w") as usef:
            with open(usep, "w") as usef:
                usef.write(" ".join(sorted(list(new_flags))))

    This script will remove "abi_riscv_lp64" and "abi_riscv_lp64d" from IUSE and IUSE_EFFECTIVE in /var/db/pkg entries, eliminating the "urge" for Portage to rebuild everything.

  10. Just a note -- I forgot to re-enable gdm for GNOME, so SDDM is still the default for GNOME. Some notes here --

    By default, SDDM will try to start a "GNOME on Wayland" session which will fail. Just toggle it to "GNOME on Xorg" in the top-left drop-down.

    And if you want to switch to GDM, just edit /etc/conf.d/xdm as root and change "sddm" to "gdm" and reboot. Then you'll be using GDM.

  11. That's a shame, always thought it was cool that you were using JFS. JFS is the filesystem I have played with the least. When I was writing IBM developerWorks articles, it was time for me to write about JFS (which came from IBM) and I could not get it to work at all. IBM wasn't happy about that and I was no longer writing IBM articles after that.

  12. Hey everyone -- the latest Funtoo stages have arrived! (they have dates from 2020-12-14 to 2020-12-15).


    Docker images updated on DockerHub: https://hub.docker.com/u/funtoo

    VMware Workstation Guest Support in GNOME stages: By default, GNOME stages are now able to run inside VMware Workstation by simply following the Install Guide. Just be sure to enable 3D acceleration in your VM config (this typically is not turned on by default.) Open-vm-tools has been added to the GNOME stage3 and will enable itself if it detects that it's running in a VMware VM. Also, VirtualBox compatibility is improved. Again, be sure to enable 3D acceleration for your VirtualBox VM.

    VMware Workstation compatibility is only in the GNOME stages. The standard stage3's are unchanged. See https://www.funtoo.org/Funtoo_VMware_Guest_Support for more information. Existing users can enable VMware guest support as follows:

    # ego profile mix-in +gfxcard-vmware
    # emerge open-vm-tools
    # rc-update add vmware-tools default
    # emerge -auDN @world

    Mesa 20.2.4, which has various bug fixes and improved USE mappings which should result in improved video playback performance under Funtoo for many users.

    Installation Instructions: https://www.funtoo.org/Install/Introduction

    Find your Subarch here: https://www.funtoo.org/Subarches

    If you have questions, issues, or just want to drop in and say hello you can find us on Discord https://discord.gg/BNUSpUU or Telegram https://t.me/funtoolinux


    -Daniel and the Funtoo Team

  13. @rekena I am not seeing anything obvious from what you posted indicating a problem. As @lego12239 asked, what specifically are you seeing? Based on what you originally said, it sounds like GRUB is not even loading for you? If this is the case, then we want to make sure grub bootloader has been installed, so....

    Make sure you have run the "grub-install (with arguments from install docs)" command from the install instructions. This will install the boot loader. Then run "ego boot update" in chroot. Then when you reboot grub should load.

    If grub is loading, but the kernel can't find the root filesystem, then this is a *different* issue related to partition naming and what I assume @pnoecker was thinking. But you are saying that grub isn't starting. So I don't think we should look here.

    In any case, please clarify exactly what you are seeing 🙂

  14. 19 hours ago, pnoecker said:

    where do i start.  /dev/nvme is a direct device name and can change, use either labels, partlabels, uuid, or partuuid persistent naming because udev can load the drive as nvme0n0p5 or n2p5

    This is probably not the problem and shouldn't be the first advice to try to address the issue.

  15. Hey everyone,

    I have updated our Development Guide to contain information on the "Funtoo Way". The "Funtoo Way" is a really important philosophy about how we do things at Funtoo and I strongly encourage everyone to read it, even if you don't consider yourself a "developer". It helps to explain how our community works and how we can work together.




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